IWD2022 Celebrating the Women of Fingal: Betty Boardman

Gerry McDermott:

Our guest today is Betty Boardman who is the County Librarian for Fingal which means that she's in charge of Fingal Libraries. And if you think that libraries only lend books, then don't go away, because you're going to learn that there's a lot more to libraries these days than just books. Betty, you very welcome to Inside Fingal.

 

Betty:

Thanks, Gerry. I'm delighted to be here to talk about Fingal Libraries.

 

Gerry:

Well it’s great to have you with us. And you know, it was many years ago, but I remember my first visit to the library as a young schoolboy, it was a place with shelves from floor to ceiling full of books, huge emphasis on silence, and fines if you didn't return the books on time. How different are today's libraries from what I've just described?

 

Betty:

Well, let me start with the last thing you mentioned there Gerry, fines. So, fines were abolished in Fingal libraries at the beginning of 2019. And not just in Fingal libraries, but in library authorities around the country. And this is very much the practice now internationally that fines are being removed from libraries. And this has been done for a number of reasons. First and foremost, fines are seen as a barrier to library membership and usage of libraries. Also, they disproportionately affect people on lower incomes. And overall, they have a very negative association with libraries. So, for all these reasons they've been removed. And I have to say, I think it's a very, very good move.

 

Gerry:

And you've  just introduced that policy of no fines. How's it working?

 

Betty:

It's working very, very well. So far. It's difficult to gauge this year because of COVID, and all of that. But so far, the reaction has been very, very good. And the other things you mentioned there, Gerry, and floor to ceiling books, for example, that's changing as well, and probably in a much more subtle way. But libraries, I think are judged not just by their book collections, but by the spaces that they provide for people. By spaces. I mean, the comfortable seating arrangements that we have in libraries, the beautiful buildings that we have, for people can come in, as individuals are in groups to read to learn to study in those spaces. And Dermot Bolger, a very well-known Dublin writer has described libraries as the last democratic spaces, and that in libraries, we become not just consumers, but citizens. And I think that's really important, because libraries are very neutral and democratic spaces. You don't have to pay any money to be a member of the library. And nobody's going to force you to buy anything when you come into a library. So, it is a very relaxed place in which to be.

 

Gerry:

So I suppose that poses the question, what are the objectives of a library? Like, what's the purpose of it?

 

Betty:

Well, for us in Fingal libraries, we want to provide high quality library spaces that meet the needs of our library users. We also want to provide a very varied and stimulating program of events. So, this would be an educational, cultural and recreational program of events and activities for all ages for very young children, right up to older people. And also, we want to be a point of access to technology and e-services for everybody. So, libraries have always been a point of access for technology. So, if you think back to when Internet access was first introduced in Ireland, in the late 1980s 1990s, libraries offered the public a chance to come in and sample Internet access and to use it. And obviously we do this right up to the present day. And now you can go into libraries, you can use our tablets, you can use laptops, and you can try our 3D printers, for example. So, which is very important that we have this role to play in digital literacy, and that we are doing everything we can to come back digital poverty,

 

Gerry:

You mentioned digital there and I suppose a lot of people would have felt that when digital came along, and you had things like your Kindle, and you know, this ability to read books on digital appliances, that that would be the end of the libraries. But that's not been the case.

 

Betty:

No, absolutely not. That has not been the case at all. And I think people felt when digital came along that the books would disappear. But in fact, that hasn't been the case at all. So, the sale of ebooks has actually plateaued at this stage. Books are definitely holding their own and I think people just like it's just that tactile experience of having a book. Certainly ebooks very, very important and when we are able to travel again, it's great to be able to just put a kindle into your suitcase rather than packing in five or six novels into that suitcase. So, a service is very, very important. But certainly, books are there to stay.

 

Gerry:

And that's one thing like I suppose libraries move with the times. And then you have your very own app?

 

Betty:

We have our very own app. Yes, indeed. So from the comfort of your own home, you can go on to the Library app, and you can check the catalog, you can also go on and access our services from the Library app. So if you want to download magazines, newspapers, ebooks, you can do all that from the comfort of your own home. And of course, you can also reserve books as well, if there's a particular book that you feel you would like to have, you can reserve that using the app,

 

Gerry:

Tell us about the Fingal Library services, because it's not just one library or two libraries, you've got a lot of libraries spread all over the county.

 

Betty:

We have Gerry, we have 10 libraries in Fingal. So the smallest of these is Garristown, which is in the east of the county on the borders of County Meath. And then the largest is in Blanchardstown. We also have for mobile library vans, and local studies and archive service as well.

 

Gerry:

And the thing the one thing about libraries and you mentioned Garristown which is a small library in a little village, the libraries are unique in their character and that. Like I think the one in Rush is built in an old church.

 

Betty:

It is the one in Rush is in an old church. It's a very, very beautiful library. And the architects who worked on that really did a very, very fine job. And they've encompassed all of the features of the library and of the church in the library. So it's very, very beautiful indeed. One of our older libraries is Skerries library. Skerries library is an old Carnegie Library, and we are going to be extending and refurbishing that library in the new year.

 

Gerry:

And there is also a connected Carnegie Library in Swords as well isn’t there, which is under the auspices of Fingal libraries.

 

Betty:

It is. That has been used by the Fingal Historical Society at the moment, but that too, is going to be refurbished in the coming years.

 

Gerry:

You mentioned there, Betty, about mobile libraries. Can you tell us a little bit about mobile libraries and what they are and what they do?

 

Betty:

Yes, so in 2018, Fingal Libraries made a big investment in the mobile library service in that we introduced four new mobile library vans. So before that, we had vans that had clocked up 1000’s of miles between them, and they are on average about 15 years old. So we really felt that it was time to get new vans. As you know, Fingal is a very nice mix of urban and rural. And there are people who live in areas where they're not near to a library, they don't have access to a library. They don't have any public or private transport to that library. And also, Fingal has a very young population, there are lots of preschools, there are lots of creches, there are lots of primary schools. So the mobile libraries are just a wonderful way of going out to people with the library service. So when we introduced the new vans, we decided we would make them very, very colourful and very distinctive, and anybody who knows them, will certainly know that they are very, very recognizable. And also what we decided to do was to use them for events such as festivals. So we're now a regular at the Flavors of Fingal. And last year, we were very excited to get an invitation to go to the ploughing championships. So we bought one of the mobile vans down to the ploughing championships. And it really attracted a lot of attention. So people came on board, who had never been in a mobile library before. And we brought some storytellers and entertainers with us. And we really had a great few days at the ploughing championships.

 

Gerry:

And you mentioned Ploughing Championships. And of course, your involvement there is because libraries is a sort of a nationwide service as well, that all the libraries are linked in together.

 

Betty:

That's right. So when you're a member of the library, you don't only have access to the books that are in the Fingal libraries, you have access to about 12 million books that are available on the island of Ireland. And again, it's very easy to get these books, if you so wish. So using the Library app or going on to the website, or coming into the library, you can reserve an item, for example that we might not have in our libraries. But for example, Cork city libraries would have us, all you have to do is reserve as you nominates the branch that you wish the library to go that you wish to buy people to go to, and it will be there usually within a week.

 

Gerry:

So are you saying there then that it's very possible for you to get any book that somebody is looking for?

 

Betty:

Is it pretty much possible for us to get any book that somebody is looking for? Absolutely, yes.

 

Gerry:

Who selects the books, like who decides what books go into the library?

 

Betty:

So we have a team of essentially book buyers, a small team of book buyers, they're based in headquarters, and they're also based in some of our branches as well. They will be very knowledgeable about authors and reading trends and they really know their books. So they select the books on behalf of the libraries, we get our books from book suppliers, and they in turn get them from publishers and from other library wholesalers. And when the books come in to our headquarters, they are essentially shelf ready. So that means that they have a barcode on them. And they're identifiable as being belong to Fingal libraries. So we just match them against invoices, and then they're sent out to all the branches as quickly as possible. So we like to have the books as up to date as possible. So for example, if you hear a celebrity being interviewed on the Ryan Tubridy show, it might be Jamie Oliver, and he has this new cookbook coming out, we'd like to have that book in the library within a few days, or a few weeks of him being on the show.

 

Gerry:

And you and you obviously see big pickups that if somebody you know appears, and on The Late Late Show or on a radio show, and that sort of thing, plugging their book, as a lot of them seem to be doing, particularly these days, you see people coming in into the library doors looking for those books?

 

Betty:

Oh, absolutely, yes. Now, the way that the publishing world works is that we would know in advance what books are coming out. So you know, if Gerry McDermott is bringing out his autobiography or whatever, we genuinely will have done that a couple of months in advance. And then usually we will, we will know a couple of weeks in advance who might be on the Ryan Tubridy show or not, you know, sometimes it is quite late announcements. But certainly you will see a lot more reserves on a particular book at different times in relation to that particular autobiography, and they're gonna be waiting a while.

 

Gerry:

We're living in this COVID times, you know, dealing with a COVID pandemic, how has that affected the library service?

 

Betty:

Well, I suppose like every other industry and every other place of work, COVID has had a dramatic effect on libraries. So effectively, we had to close our doors on the 12th of March. And we weren't able to open them again until the end of June. So that had a very, very dramatic effect on library services. And as you can imagine, on the staff. So essentially what we had to do, Gerry was to move everything to the digital and to the virtual space. So I mentioned e-services before and they really became very, very important, particularly during the first lockdown, but right throughout 2020.

So we've seen an increase of about 82% in the use of our e-services. So they really peaked in May, which was at the height of the lockdown, and that 82% was an increase on the January figure. So it's audiobooks, ebooks, eMagazines enewspapers, learning courses, or music streaming services that are all free of charge on the Fingal library's website. And there really is a great selection. If we just take say, for example, that the magazines alone does everything from the entertainment and lifestyle magazines like Hello, Time Magazine, and Newsweek, new scientists. So it was a really, really good way and an important way for people to keep up to date with what was going on in the world, even though they weren't able to be out and about. And the other thing we did Gerry was our events, we moved them to the virtual space as well.

So right through the year we would hold a program of events, educational, recreational events, cultural events, and they all moved to the virtual space. So in some cases, the people who would normally deliver these events for us came on board, and they did videos, and they did podcasts. But in many cases, our own staff created the content. So our own own staff did storytelling sessions. They did photography courses, they did yoga classes, poetry, workshops, all sorts of things like that. So they really have been very, very creative and very hardworking, over 2020.

 

Gerry:

And I think it's great that you have a staff that can turn their hand to almost anything

 

Betty:

We do. We have very talented staff in Fingal libraries.

 

Gerry:

And one of the things that happened over the last few months that I was very impressed with was the service that you provided to people who were cocooning. How did that come about?

 

Betty:

So at the start of the first lockdown, and local authorities started a community called service. And we looked at our housebound service as the contribution to this. We've always had a housebound service to deliver books to people who are unable to leave their homes. So we decided to rebrand it and call it the cocooning library service. And essentially, it was a book delivery service to people who were cocooning. And so what they had to do was to ring the community call or contact the library service directly and that service is still there. And just let us know what type of books they like to read. Now, in some cases, they're looking for specific titles and we can't always do that, but certainly if they let us know the genre that they're interested in, and what we do is our library drivers deliver books to these people, and not just a once off and they'll deliver the books and come back and collect them and then give more books. So over the course of the last couple of months, we've made 300 deliveries of 4000 books to 166 people.

 

Gerry:

166 Very happy people.

 

Betty:

Absolutely and the feedback we've got from the service has really been very heartwarming, I have to say, people are just delighted with it. And it's been an absolute lifeline for a lot of people.

 

Gerry:

And that's one thing about books is that once you get a love of books it’ll last you right through your lifetime. And it poses the question for me anyway, how do you get people reading in the first place like, you know, obviously, early learners, and you're trying to get them into books and that sort of thing? How do libraries go about doing that?

 

Betty:

So children are never too young to be introduced to books. There's a wonderful book written by a woman called Dorothy Butler, and it's called babies need books. Now, she wrote quite a long time ago around about 1980. But in it, she says that children should be introduced to books in the first few months of their lives not in the first few years, but in the first few months, and there are lots of books there. For very small children, there are board books, which are really durable, there are plastic books, which children can take into the bath, there are books that have no words, which are very visual and might have sound. And children really enjoy these at a very, very young age. And then when they get a little bit older, and the bedtime story is very, very important. And so that's a really good bonding experience between a parent and a child between maybe an older sibling and a very young child, or between grandparents and children. And children just love that experience. I think we all do love that experience of having a story recited. So that's really important. And then as they get older, in libraries, in Fingal libraries, and in most libraries around the country, you'll find there's baby book clubs, for example. And there's parent and toddler groups. So really important to bring children to libraries and have them socialized around books. So that can also introduce an interest and a love of reading and very small children. And then as they get older, to allow children pick out their own books, and to enjoy independent reading at that stage. And I think as parents, we can often get quite hung up about what children should be reading. And I think it is important to let children read what they want to read themselves. And you know, not every child wants to sit down and read through a Harry Potter. So some children might enjoy comics or some might enjoy graphic novels and it's really important to let them express their interests.

 

Gerry:

And I suppose for any parent who is confused by it, the library staff are there to help

 

Betty:

Oh, absolutely. Library staff are trained, and they really know their books. So certainly, you should talk to library staff, if you if you want some recommendations on what to read. Or if you have a reluctant reader, for example.

 

Gerry:

One thing that caught my eye when I was preparing for this interview was that Blanchardstown Library is the home of the European Direct Information Center. What is that? And what do they do?

 

Betty:

So there's been a European Direct Information Center at Blanchardstown libraries since 2005. And there are nine European Direct centers around Ireland, all of them based in public libraries. They are funded by the European Commission. So on behalf of the European Commission, we provide information to the public on all aspects of European life. And we also provide a platform on some topical issues to do with Europe. So we've just finished a series of interviews on the European Green Deal. So the European Green Deal, is Europe's strategy to tackle pollution and to make the planet a safer place on which to live.

 

Gerry:

There seems to be something for everybody at your libraries. So if I wanted to become a member of Fingal libraries, how would I go about it?

 

Betty:

It's really easy to become a member at the moment, Gerry, so all you have to do is to go onto our website, or go on to the library's Ireland website, you fill in some details. And you can almost immediately start using our E services, newspapers, magazines, books. And then if you want to borrow a book, and just go to one of our libraries are now open as of last Tuesday for browsing. So again, you just go and validate your membership and you can start borrowing books straight away. So it's never been easier and there's no charge.

 

Gerry:

But I think there's one thing that I got caught on a couple of times is you have to renew your membership every year. Is that right?

 

Betty:

Yes, you do. And that just allows us just to keep our statistics very up to date about who is using libraries. So we do ask you to renew your membership every year.

 

Gerry:

You mentioned about the librarians and the people that work for you and you know, very talented people and that sort of thing. Being a librarian is one of the many different jobs that people do here in Fingal County Council. Is this is something that you would recommend?

 

Betty:

Oh, I will. Absolutely. I think because libraries are ever changing places. Because as library staff, we have to keep really up to date with what the public wants, not just in their reading habits, but also with technology. I think because of that every day is a learning day in libraries. And I think that makes it very, very interesting. And also you get to work with other professionals and other departments communications, for example, also with the architects, because we are renovating and extending Skerries library, so we have to work very closely with our architects department to give them a brief for that. And also, we are planning a new County library in the Swords Cultural Quarter. So again, we've been working very closely with our architects in delivering a brief to them for a new county library in that area.

 

Gerry:

And what would the difference be between a county library and a normal library?

 

Betty:

So a county library is a library, which is in the main administrative center of a local authority, so Swords is the main County town for Fingal. So the County Library for us will be a much larger library than we've had before. It will be for example, bigger than Blanchardstown. And it will be the main library for the local authority. And it will also have our local studies and archives collections. So it will be a place where people can come, they can read, they can go to events in the library, they can study, and it'll also be adjacent to arts facilities. So there'd be a nice relationship there between arts and libraries, and lots of joint programming of events and activities.

 

Gerry:

I think that's all going to be part of the swords cultural quarter, isn't that right?

 

Betty:

That's right, that will be part of the Swords cultural quarter yes.

 

Gerry:

And what we have here in fingers in terms of our library service, how does that compare to other counties?

 

 

 

Betty:

We compare very, very well. So if you take our opening hours, for example, our libraries will be open about 45 hours per week, across six days. And that will be among the highest opening hours in the country. So we're open on Saturdays, and most of our libraries, and we're open up until eight o'clock in the evening, as well. So our libraries will compare very, very well, as regard spending, we would spend about 50 euro per head of population on our library service. And that is money very, very well spent, in my opinion,

 

Gerry:

Just as you were talking there, you know, we started the conversation talking about fines and that sort of thing. But one of the new things that's come in now is self service. And you know, that there's more and more trust being placed on the client of the library.

 

Betty:

Yeah, I think self service really was a game changer when we introduced it. Gosh, it's about nine or 10 years ago at this stage, and a lot of libraries around the country now have self service. And you're right, Gerry is it is all about trust. But I think also, it's a lot more than that, I think it creates a much more democratic relationship between the people who use the library and the people who are providing the library service. So when you come into the library, now, if you take somewhere like Donabate library, for example. So that opened as a self service library, you don't come into the library to be met by a massive big mahogany style desk, you know, that's gone. And you're not dealing with somebody across the counter it very much is, you know, side by side service. And I think that really is important. So I think it gives greater ownership of the library to the people who are using us. And it's very time efficient for people as well. So it means they don't have to queue they can just go to the self service units. And also young children just love it, you know, they just take to it really, really well. But certainly for older people. It's very easy technology to use. There's absolutely nothing complicated about it at all.

 

Gerry:

Just before you go, I've just one final question for you. As we're heading into Christmas. It's a time that many people set aside for reading. So do you have any recommendations for say books for children, young people, adults?

 

Betty:

Yes, I think because of the year that's in us, it would be good if we all supported an independent and local bookshops and their websites. And it's been a difficult year for authors. On the one hand, they've had lots of time to write. But on the other hand, it's been quite difficult for them, you know, to get books out there because there really haven't been any physical launches. They haven't been able to do book signings, for example. Because when it comes to recommendations, certainly for young children, there's a beautiful book by Sarah Webb called ‘The one with the waggly tail’. And it's all to do with rhymes and rhymes from an Irish childhood. So it's beautifully illustrated, and I think that will be a very good book for young children. And for older children, there's a book called ‘Break the mold’ by Sinead Burke and that really is all about giving confidence it's a guide to teenagers being happy in in their own bodies and in their own skins. And I think that will be a very welcome present from Santa are present from a parent and one that I have my eye on myself, but I haven't actually read it as yet is John Banvilles new book called ‘Snow’ and ticks a lot of boxes for me because it's about the body of a parish priest that's found in a library in a stately home in Wexford. So I think that will be a very, very good read. But also, there are lots of memoirs out this year, you know, particularly some great females. So, for example, Mary McAleese his memoirs are out, and also the former state pathologist, Dr. Mary Cassidy. So I think they will be very, very good presents for people.

 

Gerry:

Betty thank you very much indeed, that's been absolutely fascinating, very enlightening. And I think everybody now has a better understanding of how Fingal libraries operates, and also, what an important service Fingal libraries provides for the people of Fingal. So thank you very much indeed for joining us today.